Bishops18SophieInterview
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                                   INTERVIEWER
            Hi, what's your name?

                                   SOPHIE
            Sophie.

                                   INTERVIEWER
            Is that all?

                                   SOPHIE
            Sophie Riesinger.

                                   INTERVIEWER
            Where do you live?

                                   SOPHIE
            I live a few miles from Essen.  You can make out the
            cathedral from my cabin.

                                   INTERVIEWER
            You live in a cabin?

                                   SOPHIE
            Yes.  My father constructed it before I was born, with my
            mother.  It is a little drafty when the snows come, but I
            padded the cracks with wool several months ago.  When there
            is clean firewood, the place warms enough during the winter.

                                   INTERVIEWER
            You live alone there?

                                   SOPHIE
            I do.

                                   INTERVIEWER
            How old are you?

                                   SOPHIE
            I'm twenty.  Now I know what you are going to say.  "Why
            aren't you married?"  As though it were a problem to be
            solved.  Just last week I was carrying two buckets of milk
            back to the cabin and there was Dieter van Houten, riding his
            ridiculous little wagon and a sprig of hay bouncing in the
            corner of his mouth.  "Ding dong," he hollers at me. 
            "There's our wedding bells!  Let's get married!"  Well, I
            gave him a look that would freeze a lake, and he slunk right
            down in that wagon, his hat around his ears, and he just rode
            on by.  Never said another word to me.

                                   INTERVIEWER
            Where are your parents?

                                   SOPHIE
            My ma died when I was almost a baby.  My pa got ill and
            passed last summer.

                                   INTERVIEWER
            You were raised by your father?

                                   SOPHIE
            I was, and he did as good a job as any ma.  He taught me to
            fight with my fists, though, just like a boy.  For a time I
            could beat any boy.

                                   INTERVIEWER
            What happened?

                                   SOPHIE
            They got big.

                                   INTERVIEWER
            Don't you like boys?

                                   SOPHIE
            A handful are easy on the eyes, but in all honesty, I've
            never met one I could tolerate but for a few minutes. 
            They're always quick to make google-eyes and whistle and sing
            boisterous songs.  

                                   INTERVIEWER
            Why do you think the boys do that?

                                   SOPHIE
            Oh, my body, I suppose.  Boys are always talking about my
            body or my hair.  They all want to have sex with me, and they
            go about declaring it to me as rudely as they can.  It is as
            though I carry around a bit of jewelry all the time, that I
            have no desire to be carrying about, that all boys constantly
            want to pickpocket from me.  It is all no end of annoying.

                                   INTERVIEWER
            So what made Jan van Leyden different?

                                   SOPHIE
            It wasn't the bishop title, though I admit the idea of
            marrying a bishop appealed to me when I was a little girl. 
            It was the way he used words.  I do like words, if they are
            the right ones.  He made me feel a bit special, I suppose,
            important even.  Smart.

                                   INTERVIEWER
            Do you consider yourself smart?

                                   SOPHIE
            I'm smarter than most of the fools who whistle for my
            attention like a barmaid.  Since I was a small girl, my
            father schooled me.  I know lots of things about baking and
            horses and running a farm.  He taught me how best to sell the
            milk in the market, without giving up too much money in the
            barter.  It is a subtle trick, and one done best with a clear
            head.  I don't touch beer.

                                   INTERVIEWER
            But Leyden made you feel smart?

                                   SOPHIE
            Well, no.  He didn't make me feel smart, so much as see who I
            am actually.  I can do things.  I can add and subtract and
            multiply up to ninety-nine.  I know the history of the world. 
            I know the basic elements, the books of the Bible, how to
            keep a fire for a year, and how to sharpen a knife.  I can
            hunt with a bow.  I take rabbits from time to time.  That is
            me.  He saw me as I am.

                                   INTERVIEWER
            Are you bragging?

                                   SOPHIE
            No.  A little.

                                   INTERVIEWER
            Do you think Leyden is smart?

                                   SOPHIE
            He's very smart in some ways and very stupid in others.  He
            has many fancy words and he can string them together into
            pretty necklaces to give to me or his other women, but he
            never says what he really wants.

                                   INTERVIEWER
            What do you mean?

                                   SOPHIE
            He lies as a matter of course.  Even when it's more
            convenient to tell the truth, he'll make up a stack of lies
            and hand them to me, like a bouquet with a ribbon.  It's
            almost as though he likes getting into trouble.

                                   INTERVIEWER
            When did you first decide that Leyden was a liar?

                                   SOPHIE
            When he opened his mouth to me.  He is a very bad liar.  

                                   INTERVIEWER
            Do you love Leyden?

                                   SOPHIE
            How do you know when you are in love?

                                   INTERVIEWER
            What do you think?

                                   SOPHIE
            I guess you are supposed to get a tingly feeling.  I never
            really got a tingly feeling about anything, except wool and
            muslin.  I love muslin very much.  Anyway, he is the second
            man to speak gently to me.  He makes me feel that I am of
            value for something other than whistling and catcalling.

                                   INTERVIEWER
            Who was the first?

                                   SOPHIE
            My father.  After my ma died, he did a good job as my pa.  My
            pa taught me to read words.  Reading words is really not so
            bad.  They are made from letters, and if you know the
            letters, more often than not you can know the words.  It just
            takes some practice and anyone can do it.

                                   INTERVIEWER
            How did he die?

                                   SOPHIE
            Gut stoppage.  I was with him when he passed.  I think the
            hardest thing for him was knowing that I would be alone after
            he was gone.  He feared that when he was gone, the world
            would eat me whole.  Of course I knew it couldn't, that I
            could take care of myself, but he wouldn't believe me.  So he
            died, feeling afraid he couldn't protect me anymore.  I
            couldn't put his mind at ease.  He was a good pa in all
            things.

                                   INTERVIEWER
            Is Jan van Leyden like your pa?

                                   SOPHIE
            Not really, no.  Pa was honest and quiet as snow.  Well, to
            everyone except me, he was.  Jan is a talker.  Once he gets
            started, you can't do anything.  You just have to let him
            finish.

                                   INTERVIEWER
            You speak badly of Jan.

                                   SOPHIE
            It's easy to talk bad of Jan when he's not around.  But when
            he's around, I believe him.  Maybe not the way I believe that
            the sun is warm and the streams are cold, but in the way that
            I believe in pixies.

                                   INTERVIEWER
            What are pixies?

                                   SOPHIE
            They put the dew on the grass in the mornings.  I never see
            pixies, but my father told me that they are responsible for
            the morning dew.  I suppose if I were to think about it I
            would doubt them.  But I never think about them too hard. 
            Pixies are a story.  The story is nice.  So I believe in
            them.

                                   INTERVIEWER
            So you believe Jan because of the prettiness of his stories?

                                   SOPHIE
                          (laughs)
            His face is not too bad either. 

                                   INTERVIEWER
            You never answered my question.  Do you love Jan?

                                   SOPHIE
            I suppose, in a way I do.  He pulled a trick to make me marry
            him, but underneath all his stories, you know, I really think
            he does love me.

                                   INTERVIEWER
            How do you feel about the fact that he has married other
            women?

                                   SOPHIE
            At first I found it very vexing.  Why should he treat me as a
            toy to be played with and forgotten and played with again? 
            But then I started to realize that it was his nature to love
            in that way.  He is like a big baby.  When I have his
            attention, I have his complete attention, and I am the only
            woman in the world.  But he is distracted by some other shiny
            object and goes wandering off shortly. 

                                   INTERVIEWER
            Doesn't that make you mad?

                                   SOPHIE
            It did, and then I realized that it is like getting mad at a
            snake for biting you.  It is simply him, and he will not
            change.  I don't think he is more bad than the average man. 
            He just doesn't love the way that a person should.

                                   INTERVIEWER
            How is that?

                                   SOPHIE
            Completely.

                                   INTERVIEWER
            What do you think of Heinrich?

                                   SOPHIE
            I think he has nice hair.  Also I like the color of his eyes. 
            It seems to me that they change color depending on what he is
            thinking at any moment.  They tend to betray what is going on
            in his heart.  It is a shame that he spends so much time
            trying to hide those feelings.  He is a gentleman.  I am sure
            of that.  He is very quiet.  I wish he would talk more about
            himself.

                                   INTERVIEWER
            If you could ask Heinrich any question, what would it be?

                                   SOPHIE
            "Why don't you tell me how you feel?"

                                   INTERVIEWER
            What do you think he'd say in response?

                                   SOPHIE
                          (peeved)
            Well, how am I supposed to know the answer to that?

                                   INTERVIEWER 
            Let's change the subject.  How did you feel when Leyden
            married himself to you?

                                   SOPHIE
            I was angry at him.  Why should he trick me like that to make
            me love him?

                                   INTERVIEWER
            Did you love him?

                                   SOPHIE
            At that time, no.  But he seemed so sincere in his
            appreciation for me that I had to do something.

                                   INTERVIEWER
            Why didn't you just thank him and tell him to go away?

                                   SOPHIE
                          (silence)

                                   INTERVIEWER
            Sophie?

                                   SOPHIE
            I don't know.  He's very hard to refuse anything to.  If you
            refuse him, he asks you again, changing the question just a
            little, always looking at you, so it's very hard to refuse
            him outright.  And you do want to believe him, when he says
            those pretty words.  Despite all his calculations and his
            lies, he is harmless somehow.  He is bad, but all the bad is
            plain and easy to see.  The good is in there, but hidden.  It
            pleases me to see him smile.

                                   INTERVIEWER
            Do you think he's taking advantage of you?

                                   SOPHIE
            Oh, he's as randy as a goat, and I'm not old and ugly yet.  I
            know that's why he wanted to bed me at first.  And yet I
            know, I really really know, that a part of him will be mine
            for the rest of his life.  I went along with his trick
            marriage because he believed it was real.

                                   INTERVIEWER
            Did you want him?

                                   SOPHIE
            Not in that way.  I don't own any glass for seeing myself. 
            But he is a flattering glass, and despite his faults, which
            are deep, he has never once had unkind words for me.

                                   INTERVIEWER
            What are you most afraid of in life?

                                   SOPHIE
                          (thinks)
            Hard to say.  Mathilda and Emelda are doing poorly.

                                   INTERVIEWER
            Who are they?

                                   SOPHIE
            Two of my cows.  One has a problem with her foot.  She cannot
            walk well and she bleeds sometimes now.  The other is
            wheezing.  They were my best milkers for a time.  The others
            are coming up, but they are young.  If Mathilda's and
            Emelda's milk gets the pus, I can't sell it.  If they get too
            sick, I'll have to do away with them somehow, and I can't
            handle an axe very well.  Oh well, no sense worrying over it.

                                   INTERVIEWER
            What do you think the greatest misconception about you is?

                                   SOPHIE
            Misconception?

                                   INTERVIEWER
            Yes, what do you think people are most likely to mistake
            about you?

                                   SOPHIE
            Well, I think the boys tend to make me out as a tart or an
            idiot.

                                   INTERVIEWER
            What are you wearing right now?

                                   SOPHIE
                          (looks)
            Clothes.

                                   INTERVIEWER
            Can you tell me about them?

                                   SOPHIE
            This dress was originally owned by my ma.  I wore it today
            for you, because I thought this was something important.  But
            it's only you, so I shouldn't have worn it.  It is only for
            special occasions.

                                   INTERVIEWER
            It seems a bit frayed at the edges.

                                   SOPHIE
            It is fine, and that's all you need to say about it.

                                   INTERVIEWER
            Are all your clothes like this dress?

                                   SOPHIE
            I have a shawl for travelling, and I cover my head properly
            for Sunday mass.  Otherwise, I make do with borrowed items
            and hand-me-downs.

                                   INTERVIEWER
            Can you not sew your own clothes?

                                   SOPHIE
            I am sure I could if I wanted to, but my hands are not as cut
            for fine work as when I was a small girl.  I use my hands
            every day and they are good for the farm and not for sewing.

                                   INTERVIEWER
            How do you feel about wearing these old clothes?

                                   SOPHIE
            First, these clothes are not so old.  They are only a few
            years old, and throwing out clothes just because they are old
            is a waste and not to be tolerated.

                                   INTERVIEWER
            How do you feel about wearing old clothes, though?

                                   SOPHIE
            Sometimes I wish I had nicer things.  Of course, no one
            speaks badly to me, but sometimes at mass the women glance at
            me a little longer than is necessary.  I can take the
            critical stares easily enough.  It's the looks of pity that
            get to me.

                                   INTERVIEWER
            Why don't you buy some?

                                   SOPHIE
            Am I made of money?  Hardly.  There are two other families
            selling milk in Essen, and one can make cheese from his cows. 
            So I have to sell at a low price, else no one buys from me. 
            I make do with my clothes.

                                   INTERVIEWER
            Would you like some nicer clothes?

                                   SOPHIE
            Sometimes I look at the wives of merchants in the streets of
            Essen, in their ruffled collars and their soft velvet.  It
            makes them beautiful, even though some of them are old and
            not so comely any more.  All the gentlemen bow to them as
            they pass. 
            Sometimes I think that, were I to wear such things, all the
            men would drop their eyes and be silent in respect and
            admiration when I passed.  But this is all imagination, and I
            should not think about it any more.

                                   INTERVIEWER
            What do you most want out of life?

                                   SOPHIE
            It would be nice to be loved, at least a little.  If nothing
            else, I would like to be on friendly terms with a gentleman
            before I die.  If I had never met my father, I would never
            have known that any man at all could be good.  I would settle
            for someone half as good.

                                   INTERVIEWER
            Can Leyden do that for you?

                                   SOPHIE
            I'm afraid this marriage with Jan will end badly.  It's not
            the natural order for one man to have more than one wife.  I
            can handle it better than some of the other women, but they
            talk.

                                   INTERVIEWER
            Thanks for the interview, Sophie.

                                   SOPHIE
            Okay.
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